"Love wins only when it defeats evil."

B. B. Baghor wrote:Quote Sanicles' signature: "Love wins only when it defeats evil. Helplessness is the illusion".

I like to share my view with you, on the "good and bad" issue, which I find in your signature today, Sanicle.
I'm not a holy person, far from it. The practice of what I try to convey here, needs loads of good practice to
really live up to it, for me. I truly believe that love reigns in the Universe, when evil is faced by it in a firm
but compassionate manner. Including boundaries and responsibility for having to say "No" or even....."Yes".

Without the involvement of a fierce fight, defeat and losing face, there's no need for bruises, revenge and shame.
I don't mean to suggest that a good quarreling isn't valuable at times, by telling... or yelling... our truth about
how we feel. It allows the build up tension to come out Heh heh To be able to practice "good quarreling"
is a skill to be cherished, I feel now, later in my life.

Now, here goes B.B again...... into the deep, I warn you in advance Wink
What I truly feel is that the ability to be compassionate and embrace evil, without succumbing to it,
is one of the deepest and most hidden teachings of Christ. By accepting his role as "sinner" without
being one and knowing it full well. Which, to me, makes all the difference in the whole of the Universe.

He never was a martyr, in the sense of a fate that befell him, this fate was his choice, his purpose on planet Earth.
And for a very good reason I think. The fruit of the descendance of such an highly evolved being,
Christ present in a human body on this planet, is proof of our capability, by free will,
to (begin to) understand that we are on equal ground with him, in essence.
And act from that postion, for the benefit of our creations, coming from the heart. Create a new reality.

As I feel it, each of us need to find that entrance by our own doing. I don't mean to hide anything from you,
or to be secretive. To me, the message IS the meaning: in the events, prior to, during and after the drama,
Christs' choice to be judged as guilty, in order to go through a death experience, a transformation,
an act of will of a, to me, deeply loving nature. He included his human-ness in all of it, as I feel it.
Whether he died or not on the cross, is still a hot topic for discussion, but regarding Christs' fulfillment
of his purpose, it doesn't make a difference. At least to me.

I truly believe that the root of all evil is in the pain of not being noticed, heard or seen, once upon a time,
in many times and who knows many lives and experiences. In other words, the pain from not being loved
for who we are, in essence, as an eternal spirit being. I so resonate with mudra's post on the African tribe,
inviting a so called "guilty" member of their tribe, in the centre of their circle and name the good and loving qualities for him/her and to him/her. I love that attitude, it's without any resistance and very kind and beautiful.
I think the effect of it works for the person in the circle as well as for those forming the circle.
He/she is being held and comforted, restored to the affinity with him/herself, within the heart.

I would love to read your thoughts and views on this, Sanicle. Or those of others here too, thanks!
With Hadriel sparkled Hugs

(Forgive me for not posting this in another thread, it's quite off topic.
It may be a good idea to transfer it as a new topic or maybe add it to your thread on the Elementals, Sanicle?
After all, isn't the manifestation of our reality, by obeying to Merlins laws of nature and the laws of love in motion,
the work of Elementals?)


Last edited by B.B.Baghor on Fri May 09, 2014 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding suggestion for transfer of post)


_________________
sunny B.B.Baghor

"When I was 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much he had learned in 7 years." Mark Twain

RedEzra wrote:  

 B.B.Baghor wrote:
   Whether he died or not on the cross, is still a hot topic for discussion, but regarding Christs' fulfillment
   of his purpose, it doesn't make a difference. At least to me.

Both Josephus and Tacitus wrote about it and "the only two events subject to almost universal assent are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus


Now China or North Korea light is a communist country. In communist countries one is either put in prison or six feet under if one doesn't comply with the party line. Not so unlike Europe and the US today but much more extreme and absurd. Communists for some peculiar reason have a huge problem with Christians Jews Patriots etc and after a century of cultural revolution Communism has snuffed out some tens of millions of lives. Not so long ago the West used to stand up to Communism but now most bend over backwards to serve it. And if you patriots out there do not give up your guns to the government then they will just call on China to come get them.

magamud wrote:  

I truly believe that the root of all evil is in the pain of not being noticed, heard or seen

This is a root as with the tale of Lucifer, but your relevance is contrasting a egocentric human experience. While that is a strata of the problem, man's ego to be transformed into Buddhas fixation is not the answer. The root is understanding gods plan, which is intertwined with his Son and the experience of being human.

Christ died on the cross to show the truth of the world. The truth is that our world is made up of lies so deep that he needed to sacrifice his body to show the plan of spirit.

Any illuminated figure will fight against the lies of this world. Satan convinces many not to dig to deep and believe in love for his world.


_________________
Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

B. B. Baghor wrote:

magamud wrote:This is a root as with the tale of Lucifer, but your relevance is contrasting a egocentric human experience. While that is a strata of the problem,
man's ego to be transformed into Buddhas fixation is not the answer. The root is understanding gods plan, which is intertwined with his Son and
the experience of being human. Christ died on the cross to show the truth of the world. The truth is that our world is made up of lies so deep that
he needed to sacrifice his body to show the plan of spirit. Any illuminated figure will fight against the lies of this world.
Satan convinces many not to dig to deep and believe in love for his world.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, magamud. I meant to express my view on the nature of love, in this post, that's all.
No instructions involved, nor any "how to". At present I'm going quite deep into subjects sometimes,
in need for delivering my shouts into the Universe. It's my somewhat girlish "I can think for myself" way of trying my wings, you see?

You refer to Buddha, but I hadn't the Buddha in mind, you know, nor do I look at Christ as a martyr.
Regarding the choice of which path is a wise path, for each of us, I see no point in general instructions,
how to transform our ego into whatever state others choose for us. That's an old story to me.

And I disagree with you that I should have to fight against the lies of the world.
To me, fighting is in the realm of a dualistic consciousness and that's what I strongly believe planet Earth longs to leave behind,
with us, in the unfoldment of the new reality, the one I refer to in my post.
To me, that new reality is the essence and fruit of Christs death experience.
He offered himself in order for us to be ready for the most bewildering and beautiful ride of our existences on Earth,
around the start of the 21th century, as I see it. Aren't we lucky to be here now? I feel lucky!

I can see my own dualistic program and observe myself, going through the motions of it.
Yell, stamp my feet, cry and laugh about it and allow myself to be in that, with awareness and without fighting it.
Why should I if that's my truth of the moment for me? It doesn't mean I will obey to it and jump into action, from that starting point.
I am the observer and the ruler of my decisions, attitude and conduct, with occasional glitches by trial and error, of course.

I feel you will disagree with me, in this, but I see many, including myself, take part in the creation of lies, big and small.
We lie to ourselves, when that feels convenient and soothes our conscience, we lie to others unknowingly sometimes.
I notice it in me, if I pay attention.Which is fine, it's all part of the free will game here.
But as long as we keep doing it, it becomes extrapolated into the big schemes,
the scenarios that are on "the directors table".

I believe it's our turn now, to be "the director" and create our own scenario, each in our own way.
Our dna is heavily programmed, in order to be subservient and in fear when we are not.
It's a veil and no part of it is a useful starting point in creating our reality.
We allow the scenarios to be played out as long as we choose to take part in acting out duality consciousness, can you follow me in that?
We're all the same in that, the world out there mirrors our inner reality and belief system.
Nothing is "being done" to us, nothing at all, in my opinion.

And then.... I've never had the need for it, to call myself an "illuminated figure" Enlightened in the open.
I'm full of wry humour and I know I can be bold and sarcastic, I know very little shame and fear anymore.
I had to witness many "holy untruths" as a preachers daughter, in my early life.
I prefer to be called baba yaga, or witch, or warrior Lionhawk

Why should I separate myself from mundane expressions of life, lies included? I'm a human woman living on planet Earth.
To me, excluding myself from that mundanity, by labelling myself as "illuminated figure" is an attitude of self-importance.
I believe that playing the superior one is causing the widest grin on the devils face.
It's been the strongest mask in my life, up to a couple of years ago, a mask I've once hidden much pain behind.
I only saw its presence by going through great pain, believe me, magamud. And I'm coming out of that while still very much a human being.

As I see it, the Buddha nature was suitable for the path that Siddharta Gautama chose in his lifetime,
the one in which he found an answer to his deeply sourced question in his soul "Why do we suffer?"
Love isn't sweet to me, it's as fierce and powerful as non-judgemental and an invitation to be just who I am with all my flaws and quirks.
I don't believe in being sweet as honey poney. Like in New Ageing pink fluffy clouds and being together,
in a blob, totally ungrounded, of "We all agree that we're having a great time, aren't we happy.... boys and girls?" and "Hallelujah, YES we're happy"
replies of the chorus, dissolving in a group hug. It's a weird kind of spiritual onanism, as I see it.
And fertile soil for the devil and his consorts.


_________________
sunny B.B.Baghor

"When I was 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much he had learned in 7 years." Mark Twain

Sanicle wrote:Just think, if Pontius Pilate would have been stopped (or whoever caused him to elect to crucify Jesus) the world may have gotten many more years of Jesus’ teaching than it did, many more years of spreading his loving energy.

RedEzra wrote:
Jesus died just at the appointed time and nobody took His life but God. And believe it or not God did it for us and Jesus willingly laid down His life out of love for us.

Sanicle wrote:But tell me, if it was all God's Plan all along as you say to crucify Jesus, why did Jesus pray to Him, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" beforehand? What would God have to forgive humanity for if the crucifixion was His decision all along?

Sanicle wrote:I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say Red Ezra, but that's OK too.  

Hey Sanicle, first I like to compliment you for your courage, your choice to share yourself in your experiences in the Elementals thread.
Because, to me, you touch things on a level that is quite sensitive to a broad range of interpretations: how it is conceived, valued and understood.
It's very valuable to me, I'm happy to say.

To me, one of the hard things in virtual communications is the difficulty to share our view on and experience of love
and make that clear in order to be understood by others.

If..... that's a wise path to choose.
But isn't it worthwhile to give it a try? Like here and now, if that's what we're trying to do here.
You see how it is? Even I cannot be sure what motives each of us have here exactly, to be present in this thread.

I feel you and I are not so different in our views on love, Sanicle, if I understand you well enough.
What this phenomenal source of/force in our lives does and how words are but poor vehicles, in our trying to convey how this presence
in our lives works out the way it does.

Another way of how I look at unconditional love is this:

Love may well be the lifeforce energy of the universe, expressed in the manifestation and the continuing creation and
exploration of life and the thriving of it. Love may well be both the seed and the fruit of life and similar in its unconditional nature as is expressed in a plant.

"In lak'esh" is a Mayan greeting, which means "I am another you" and that's another way to share my view on the meaning of unconditional love.

I begin to feel strongly that we see the world "out there" as we "make it" first inside, within our frame of mind... even..... our mind controlled state.
When I feel something is done to me, I make it so... and thus... I welcome any predator to my door.
There's no guilty party unless I make it so, due to my inner guilt being touched by that party.

We all are equal in the presence of our inner pain buttons, as I see it.

And we find our reasons to be compassionate, by acknowledging that, as well as our reasons to kill for it, at the same time, isn't it ironic?
To me that statement of mine sums it all up: the fate of planet Earth, with us living in dualistic consciousness, on the 3D level still....
most of the time, lady Gaia is busy in trying to make the next move. With us.  And the elementals for sure.
They cannot but obey to the fulfillment of our souls' purpose, because it's theirs as well, as I see it.

I wish to make clear that I don't condone, or even ignore, anything that causes pain in others, in all those repercussions, in that category of experiences.
I am a human woman, all my old stories, my quirks and eccentricities are present, they are my creations and they still serve me, to remind me of my humanness.
I choose to not let the presence of evildoers and evildoings eat at my heart and soul, nor do I obey to those in my inner realm,
my hidden agendas that begin to show up fast. That's the difference I have chosen to live now. I've only recently entered that school of life.

We can witness devastation and poverty, abuse and lack of this.... and that.... threats to our comfort zones, it's being fed to us in more and
more hypnotic ways, as I see it. Where attention goes, energy follows. How we relate to all the drama, the exclusiveness
and sensational impact of the main media stream, that glitter becoming a product for commerce in itself, rather than the content of its form.
To be cautious and discern that for yourself, is a choice from within. To me, this is making all the difference, in the choices that I make now.

Stepping down now by taking a practical example of how to look at how daily life presents itself:
Imagine a little Indian homeless boy,when he rises in the morning in the suburbs of Bombay.
Look at him,when he rubs his sleepy eyes, stretches himself and walks to the well, fills his dented bowl with water and washes himself,
in a most ceremonious and conscentious manner, his movements full of grace, patient and calm.
To start his day with renewed vigour and hope: to have a chance to eat, play a bit and to find a place to sleep, when night falls.

Does this boy suffer? Well..... I suffer when I choose to look at him with eyes of a sophisticated wealthy haughty taughty woman
and decide that this boy is to be pitied. Which is true in my haughty taughty eyes only.
Is it true, that love is in the eyes of the beholder..... and might that be true for hate as well?

Sanicle wrote:
(PS) Oh and I found the answer to that question I asked you RedEzra ..... about Jesus asking God to forgive them, etc ..... elsewhere.

Sanicle wrote:
And yet he also seemed to call on everyone to worship that same cruel God of the Old Testament, who in turn, as you say, repaid Jesus’ work on his behalf by getting him cruelly crucified. A lamb to the slaughter so that ‘the Father’ would be worshipped.

Sanicle wrote:OK, we’ve all had our say so my intention is to leave the discussion here, although naturally anyone else is free to continue if they wish.  I was asked a question by BB elsewhere and have answered it here with the best of intentions but, as I said earlier, I have no wish to be drawn into religious or spiritual debate as a result of doing so, mainly because I know how precious our beliefs are to each of us as they give us hope for a better life in this world.

My guess is that my perspective on Christianity may have offended some readers and if so, I apologize for that as hurting anyone of good intent is never my aim, which is why I won't be drawn in to further debate at the risk of offending further.  Having said that, I believe that each one of us is only answerable to Source for our beliefs and actions.  I also believe that each one of us here at this forum is only ever doing his/her best to further the cause of peace, love and harmony in this world for all.  I certainly view all here who’ve commented in that light.

So it’s all good.

 

Sanicle wrote:
My guess is that my perspective on Christianity may have offended some readers and if so, I apologize for that as hurting anyone of good intent is never my aim, which is why I won't be drawn in to further debate at the risk of offending further.